Whats the best fix for me? Unless the motor is suspended with the shutter, any spring system isn’t going to help with that. If you’ve been using Sony cameras for any length of time, you know how clunky it can get. The bad news? In this case it’s 1/125 second. Sony a7RII EFCS & silent shutter sharpness, Sony a7RII EFCS & silent shutter sharpness | The Last Word. The lighting: a single Fotodiox LED-200WA-56 daylight balanced flood. ECFS changes the appearance of bokeh so it is not a freebie, although the benefits generally outweigh the deficits. Back to square one, I tried again. Le Sony A7R II est donc le premier COI Sony à enregistrer en 4K Télé (3 840 x 2 160 px) sur carte en XAVC-S. Il intègre également le format XAVC-S pour l'enregistrement HDTV 1080. Damn lucky guys those brits! Both the Sony A7iii and Sony A9 / A9ii offer a silent / electronic shutter. The larger pixel size of the a7RIII will smooth things out, but it shouldn’t happen to that extent. A7RII - Banding issues in silent shutter mode: We had some school activity this weekend. The dark blue line is for the mechanical shutter, and the blue dots are the measured points.The mechanical shutter curve behaves pretty much as expected. For A7R4, ECFS takes care of a lot of shutter stock but if you have a static object, a pure Electronic Shutter is sharper than ECFS. Photography wins -- most of the time. You should be able to find all the posts about that camera in the Category List on the right sidebar, below the Articles widget. The filter: Heliopan 77mm variable neutral density. -In silent shooting it exposes, but it's a very black frame.-> I tried turning silent shooting off and taking a shot and got "camera error, cycle power please", which remained even after the camera had been switched off. Any photo editing software will damage this data. In fact, it works so well that going all the way to silent shutter mode doesn’t bring any significant improvement on single shots, although it almost certainly would on a series of exposures made in a short period. Since you do have a GFX100, it would be interesting to see how the data plots out. The a7RIII takes about 1/15 second to do the scan, so we’re going backwards here, thanks to the higher pixel count of the a7RIV. The following camera models have an added electronic sound that is always on. So far everything is working as expected. Bryn, Thanks Jim! I can’t explain this. Point of clarification, does the bracketing mode (sort of continuous drive) drop to 12 bits? 0" 921. I processed all the files in Lightroom, with white balance set to flash, sharpening and noise reduction turned off, and all other settings at default. Camera Labs gives us our first look at how well the Sony a7III electronic shutter works and it’s not much better than other cameras so the Sony a7III electronic shutter should be reserved for subjects not in motion. All full frame E-mount cameras (except for the A7r) feature an electronic shutter in addition to the mechanical shutter. The blue curve is the a7R, and the red the a7RII with the mechanical shutter engaged. SONY Alpha shutter/image counter. The lens: the Leica 280mm f/4 Apo-Telyt-R. Although Sony said that they increased the damping of the a7RII shutter over that of the a7R (and I have no reason to disbelieve them) with a long lens like this it doesn’t make much difference. That mostly affects lower shutter speeds. Banding with silent shutter on Sony A7riii at 1/640 Artificial light is not actually “constant” but has a frequency. Restrictions when using the Silent Shooting mode Silent Shooting is available when the Mode dial is set to P, A, S or M. Thanks for your hard work on exploring this camera! Now let’s look at the vertical edge, first for the a7RIV: Now, except for the electronic shutter case, we see blurring at longer shutter speeds. Then I said “what the hey” and made a series in portrait orientation. What’s up with that? I put the Leica 280mm f/4 Apo-Telyt-R on both the a7R and a7RII, mounted the lens collar to an Arca Swiss C1 head on a set of RRS TVC-43 legs, set the whole thing on a vinyl tile over 6 inch concrete floor, and made some slanted edge photographs at various shutter speeds. You’ll notice that there has been a gap in my nearly-daily postings, and it’s not for lack of trying. With the a7RII, i used the mechanical shutter for one set of images, the electronic first-curtain shutter (EFCS)  for another, and the all-electronic — silent — shutter for a third. Does the additional of the battery grip fix the problem? I suspect the same. Or do I need kryptonite machined weight screwed to the arse of the A7r to stop the shake? I know you don’t shoot APS-C but given your relationship with your camera dealer and the common pixel design between the XT3, A7R4, GFX100 it would be interesting to see shutter shock at a pixel level comparison and I am sure the dealer would lend you the XT3 and a 80Macro for a day. With Fuji, the sensor has IBIS but in the GFX100 and X-H1: With this, vibration is not transmitted to other devices inside the camera. In fact, it works so well that going all the way to silent shutter mode doesn’t bring any significant improvement on single shots, although it almost certainly would on a series of exposures made in a short period. The tension of each of these five springs is different because the impact on each of the 5 points is different when the shutter is pressed. In order to get 13 bits, I have to avoid bulb, and continuous drive, is there anything else I have to avoid? You might ask why the electronic shutter is better than EFCS in this case. (50hz through most of the rest of the world). First, I’ll drag you through the protocol. By Louis Ferreira | Published: March 8, 2018. Silent shooting with the Sony A7R III is impressively, well, silent. It’s real close, but the EFCS actually appears to be a hair better than the silent shutter. Here’s the mechanical shutter data for both cameras: The heavy lines are the means of the MTF50s. Shutter shock was the band of the a7R because it had no EFCS. Develop in Lightroom 5.7.1 with standard settings. Maybe the sun and moon and stars aligned so that there was vibration cancellation. Exposure protocol: ND filter to minimum attenuation,, shutter to 1/500, make an exposures, ND filter down a third of a stop, shutter down a third of a stop, make another exposures… until you get to 1/10 second. WHen the a7RII came out, shutter shock was no longer much of an issue not because there was a lot less of it with the mechanical shutter, but because it had EFCS. At high shutter speeds, there is little blur because the camera doesn’t have much time to move while the shutter is open. Photography meets digital computer technology. The effect of this countermeasure is astounding. -Yes, shutter is visible and appears fully 'closed', covering the entire sensor. Granted it is used, but is that normal? Fortunately, there was a workaround: turn off live view before tripping the shutter. First, I’ll drag you through the protocol. While most of them only offer an “electronic first curtain shutter” the A7s(II) and and A7rII even offer a completely silent, purely electronic shutter. Even if a quantization error were introduced it would look like additional noise in the Edge Spread Function, which would show up as modulation of the results: but here the average is consistently lower. That’s easier on the mechanical shutter than portrait orientation, since tripods are stiffer in the up and down direction than they are from side to side. Unfortunately, in many cases, the shot-to-shot scatter due to autofocus errors was at least as large as the effect I was trying to measure, making it hard to make sense of the results. What ‘s the difference in terms of mechanical parts that move between the two modes? With electronic shutter, there’s the lease vibration of all because no part of the shutter assembly moves either before, durning, or after the shutter is released. Released five years after the original A7, the Sony A7III marks the third generation of Sony’s ‘entry’ level full-frame mirrorless camera series. Sony a7R II Silent Shooting was possible because data streams off the a7R II Back-Illuminated Sensor 3.5 times faster than previous Sony sensors. Image processing for in-camera histograms, Making the in-camera histogram closely represent the raw histogram, Leica 90/2 Apo-Summicron ASPH-M on GFX 50S. That EFCS line appears too good to be true, but I double-checked the data. With your infinite amount of time and desire to investigate cameras for the whims of the internet…. This is a harder test for the mechanical shutter than yesterday’s, since using the lens collar as the tripod mounting point allows the camera to move more than mounting the camera body directly to the tripod. That’s 100 milliseconds, or 1/10 second. IBIS and shutter shock usually don’t play well together. You want the good news or the bad news first? But hey, there is no sun there so let them enjoy the camera as first :) Using a remote release and A exposure mode, I made 16 exposures about 1 second apart at each setting with the light adjusted to give me shutter speeds of. Thanks! The lighter ones are the means plus the standard deviations (mu + sigma, in statistician-speak) and the means minus the standard deviations. At low speeds, most of the vibrations have damped down during most of the time the shutter is open, so there’s not much blur. How fast is the Sony a7RIV silent shutter? How fast is the Sony a7RIV silent shutter. The horizontal axis is the inverse of the shutter speed: if you see 160, it means 1/160 second. What’s wrong with conventional lens screening? Here it is. “ The shutter unit is suspended with five springs so they act as a shock absorber when the shutter is pressed. The EFCS on the a7RII works great. The effect on images may vary depending on the camera model and camera settings. Amazing!!! Even if [ Silent Shooting] is set to [On] , the operating sound of the aperture and focus will sound. May it be Silent Shooting mode uses an electronic rolling shutter, and yes, Sony a7S has Silent Shooting Mode but it’s 12mp sensor means much less data needs to steam from the electronic rolling shutter. So for underwater shooting in the 1/30th – 1/200th range, it seems like it would be better to use EFCS to keep 13 bits (since all the data is in narrow band of the blue) and the speed isn’t fast enough to cause shutter exposure unevenness. Not much difference between silent shutter and EFCS. Required fields are marked *. Lens collar mounted to head with RRS generic plate. Just like the Nikon Z6 and Z7 and Canon EOS R. But there are specific differences which might affect your decision about which camera best suits your needs. Making your Sony a7iii shoot silently isn’t available in every shooting mode, and not every feature is available when you turn the silent shooting on (more on that below). How does the GFX100 compare to the GFX50? The shock absorber also contributes to quietness of the shutter.”. The A7Ii … Camera on an RRS TVC-43 with an Arca Swiss C1 head, RRS L brackets on the cameras, but not used for mounting. There’s lots to love about the new Sony a7RII including upgrades to the original a7R of 5-Axis image stabilization found on a7II, Silent Shooting mode found on a7S and Electronic Front Curtain Shutter (EFS) found on every a7-series camera – except the original Sony a7R. Second, on most MILC cameras these days, shutter shock is mostly academic, since EFCS is available. ONLY ORIGINAL JPG or ARW files STRAIGHT from the camera will work. The availability of EFCS has pushed shutter shock way down in my testing priority list. That’s because the bulk of the motion imparted to a tripod mounted mirrorless camera with no added delay between winding the shutter and firing the first curtain comes from the winding action, not the motion of the first curtain. Even if [Silent Shooting] is set to [On], it will not be completely silent. I don’t know why the a7RIII looks so good here. In the next picture, which is the same graph except the data is from the a7RIII exposures, you’ll see a situation where that isn’t true at all. The EFCS on the a7RII works great. Your email address will not be published. When shooting still images using the [ Silent Shooting] function with low ISO sensitivity, if you point the camera at a very bright light source, high intensity areas on the monitor may be recorded in darker tones. Does an audibly quiet shutter translate into less shutter shock? Fearing that initial errors in manual focusing could make comparisons between cameras difficult, I chose to use autofocus. I thought you were tough. Sony a7rII Shutter Button Soft? Excellent stuff, Jim. The only part that might be a little confusing is navigating the camera’s menu system. I think the main reason is that I couldn’t get far enough away from the target. Sony a7III: Mechanical Shutter vs Silent, Interview, Time-Lapse, Rolling Shutter and More. First off, I don’t test cameras and other equipment that I have no interest in using. When shooting with the mechanical shutter all previous Sony Cameras had a little lag in the EVF display, the A7RIII is the first Sony camera to offer a fully lag free shooting with the mechanical shutter . In my first run of tests, I ran into two serious issues, either one of which would have made me have to throw out all the data and start over. I’ve run into some difficulties. Re EFCS vs Silent performance: I don’t think a 1 bit difference in the encoding at these contrast ratios should affect MTF results obtained through the slanted edge method. Looks like the a7RII mechanical shutter is a bit better than the a7R one. Unlike my previous camera the Canon 5D Mark III, which has a silent mode that is quiet, the Sony is actually silent. There’s a drop-down menu there that you can use to get to all the posts in this series; just look for “A7RIV”. Not until you get to very high attenuation. How to Set Up Silent Shutter Mode on Your Sony a6500. Third, in the testing that Mike Collette performed on the a7R, the main source of the vibration came not from the release of the shutter curtains, but by the winding of the shutter, which occurs after the shutter release is pressed in mechanical shutter mode, but (obviously) before the first curtain is released. The vertical axis is average, or mean, or mu of the MTF50 (the spatial frequency where the modulation transfer function is 50%) measures in cycles per picture height.     https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuned_mass_damper Above 1/160 second, you can throw a blanket over all the curves. Crop, export as TIFFs, analyze for horizontal edge (that’s the edge perpendicular to the way the shutter travels) for the landscape shots, and vertical edge (that’s the edge perpendicular to the way the shutter travels)for the portrait shots. There are  two possible reasons, and they both probably play a part. Sadly I have an A7r and don’t feel inclined to fork out 3k for the Mk2 version at this point. I focused once on the target and made all subsequent exposures (about 500 of them) with each camera without changing the focus. This tool will provide the number of shutter actuations that the camera has made up to the file in question. Brace yourself. I actually thought the XH1 has sharper images than the XPro2/XT2 due to the damped shutter but it would be interesting to see if your advanced measurements support that hypothesis that cameras with spring balanced shutters are superior to the A7R3. ... Press the MENU button → (Shooting) → Shutter/Silent → Shutter Type → Electronic Shutter. Photography meets digital computer technology. Hi guys, so I just got the Sony a7rii from KEH that I posted about earlier this week. And two readers from UK confirmed that they will get their A7rII preorder from Wex UK on July 30 already! If the motor is suspended, it will, and will have the additional advantage of not unsettling the IBIS system in cameras so equipped. This lens doesn’t appear to be as sharp as the 180/3.4. Second, the vibrations from the exposure one second before the current one may not have completely died away. I did not use portrait orientation, which would accentuate the effects of the shutter motions on the a7x cameras, since I don’t yet have an L-bracket for the a7RIV. You can't turn off the shutter sound because these models are only equipped with a mechanical shutter. The Sony alpha 7 Mark II (aka a7RII) has a silent shutter mode. What’s wrong with conventional lens screening? Jim – on the A7RIV, does silent shooting/silent shutter reduce bit depth in single shot mode or does it remain at 14 bits? Somewhere, I thought I read that you have used CameraWest before and if so, that gets you access to the M10 cameras. This is one in a series of posts on the Sony alpha 7 R Mark IV (aka a7RIV). The impact on the image quality is barely noticeable. The first was just a dumb move on my part: I accidentally left IBIS on in both cameras, even though they were mounted on a tripod. Out of concern for focus shift during 500-shot series, I put away the 135 mm f/2.8 Batis native E-mount lens, and took out a 135 mm /f2 Zeiss Apo-Sonnar F-mount lens and a Kipon F-to-E adapter. Other camera models . A few days ago, I set out to measure the shutter shock of the a7RIII and a7RIV. Setting up silent shutter on your a6500 is very simple to do. Cheers, […] data in yesterday’s post was pretty noisy, but it seemed to indicate that somehow the silent shutter mode on the Sony alpha 7 […], Your email address will not be published. Your email address will not be published. I lit my slanted edge target with an Aputure 120d II LED light with a 12-inch parabolic reflector mounted and the light set to 5500K. The a7RIII has a silent shutter mode. Testing and demonstrating the Sony A7II shutter slap sound next to the Sony A7s, which was the quietest shutter in the A7 series, until now. Here’s an analysis of one of the horizontal edges in the target with the a7RIV shutter set to mechanical, electronic first curtain (EFCS) and fully electronic (what Sony calls Silent Shooting). The vertical axis is average, or mean, or mu of the MTF50 (the spatial frequency where the modulation transfer function is 50%) measures in cycles per picture height. How fast is the Sony a7RIV silent shutter? I went over the data several times, and double checked the EXIF information to make sure the cameras were set up the way I thought they were, and reran Imatest on another horizontal edge, but I didn’t find anything untoward. The cameras: the Sony a7RII and Sony a7R. IBIS stiffness when not engaged? Any suggestions? I have not tested the M10, but I had an M240 for several years, and it had a lot of shutter shock and no EFCS. Some lucky coincidence of adapter/lens/whatever having a suitable resonance frequency (on this particular implementation of the mount), so that all the energy of vibrations goes into a mode which does not affect the quality of the photo? An aside: I’m curious if you notice any measurable image degradation with the variable neutral density Heliopan 77mm filter. I don’t normally test it these days, and only did so in the present instance because someone claimed that the shutter shock of the a7RIV was much less than that of the a7RIII. And I don’t usually — with one exception that I can think of when I thought I had a bad copy of the CO 60/4 macro and rented another copy from Roger at LensRentals — rent or borrow equipment, because I don’t like to feel rushed when I’m testing gear. This is because the side-to-side vibrations take longer to die away, and all but the first shots are affected by the shots that came before, and mostly by the shot that came immediately before. I am playing around with the camera and when I stared taking pictures, the shutter button is soft and not very tactile like my previous a6000. I exported crops of the slanted edge target as TIFFs, and computed MTF50, which is a good proxy for sharpness, using Imatest. Photography wins -- most of the time. The second was an unplanned side effect of a well-meaning decision. Just looking at this post though, it suggests: For A7R3, ECFS is great and has no issues. If you own the very laud Sony A7r than you may be really interested how much more silent the new A7rII shutter is. Details follow. But there are unfortunately some limitations you should be aware of. As a total aside, why can’t all lens collars have crisp detents every ninety degrees like this Leica lens? ? So I took some pictures using RAW, uncompressed, silent shutter mode and no flash. I set the compression to none, the ISO to 100, the lens to f/4 and mounted the cameras in landscape orientation in turn to a 5-section Gitzo travel tripod with a light RRS ball head, using adapter plates on the body of the cameras, which is the most stable location with the cameras in landscape orientation. In between, there is a point where the resonant frequencies of the camera/lens/head/tripod assembly conspired to do damage to image sharpness. But Iwould prefer the stop the shake! Silent Shooting is a camera feature that allows you to shoot images without the sound created by the mechanical shutter. Bryn, Jim, How come? This mostly affects higher shutter speeds. Not much to choose between the a7R and a7RII mechanical shutters, or between the EFCS and the silent shutter. The first series of images was made with the camera in landscape orientation. Your email address will not be published. (Leica). Fuji X-H1 vs. Fuji X-T3? This contaminated the results, especially those at low shutter speeds. That is especially true for a big lens which has a relatively low resonant frequency compared to a small one. First, the second curtain itself induces vibration. Testing and demonstrating the Sony A7II shutter sound next to the Sony A7s, which was the quietest shutter in the A7 series, until now. When running silent, the mechanical shutter is open and the sensor does all the work. With EFCS, there’s less vibration because the camera doesn’t have to wind and release the shutter just before the exposure. Measure MTF50 in Imatest . a7RIV vs a7RIII IBIS performance at 135 mm, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuned_mass_damper. Image processing for in-camera histograms, Making the in-camera histogram closely represent the raw histogram, Leica 90/2 Apo-Summicron ASPH-M on GFX 50S. Then I analyzed the statistics of the sets. I note shooting over 1/150sec is ok from my tests. Check out the video above! Here’s an analysis of one of the horizontal edges in the target with the a7RIV shutter set to mechanical, electronic first curtain (EFCS) and fully electronic (what Sony calls Silent Shooting). In the United States and Canada, artificial light has a frequency of 60hz. If each cycle is 1/120 second, that means the silent shutter takes 12/120, or 0.1 seconds to scan the whole frame. This can obviously prove useful in sensitive situations, but it is not without issue. Thought so. Manual focusing wide open, then lens set to f/6.9 (halfway between f/5.6 and f/8). The a7RIV lines are better because, due to its finer pitch, the camera has a smaller pixel aperture. I think the main mechanism for this was the IBIS recentering the sensor after it had been decentered by its attempt to deshakify (that’s a technical term) the previous exposure. Leica M10 vs M10-D? Unfortunately mounting a big, heavy lens like the 280/4 to the front of the camera unsupported is a recipe for damaging the lens mount. Be among the first to get the latest Sony news in your inbox. Self timer set to 5 seconds on the a7RII and 10 seconds on the a7R. A data point on Leicas and shutter shock. Or is it simply muffling the transmission of the shock to the photographer’s ears? When running silent, the mechanical shutter is on vacation: the sensor does all the work. I suspect it’s because the a7RII drops to 12 bit precision in silent shutter mode and the read noise picks up. 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